A debate I participated in with David Atkins (thereisnospoon on Daily Kos) for the Rethink Afghanistan debate series is up. Though I disagree with Atkins, I think he has some strong arguments. I take strong issue, however, with the thesis that we must defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan. Our goal in Afghanistan is not to defeat the Taliban. Our goal in Afghanistan – as it is in any war – is to keep our country safe. While some people think those two goals are one and the same, I do not, and neither do some other noted experts.
President Obama has ordered 17,000 more troops to Afghanistan, despite a noted lack of strategy and a shifting mission. As we contemplate leaving those troops in Afghanistan for years, and possibly adding another 15,000 or so to the mix, we should carefully consider all of our options.
Yes, one option is to escalate and try to defeat the Taliban. For the life of me, I can’t see how this can be accomplished. For one, “the Taliban” are actually a loosely affiliated set of groups, so treating them a monolithic enemy is counterproductive. Second, the Taliban are a homegrown operation. As such, they can never truly be defeated. You may be able to kill the leaders, and you may be able to blunt their military capacity, but when we leave (and we will leave one day), they will be back in some form. I can’t point to a single instance where an outside force every truly defeated homegrown guerrillas. It very well may be impossible.
But maybe there are other options, too. I, for one, am open to the Taliban (or some factions in the Taliban) being part of or even most of the eventual Afghan government. Political co-option is a powerful thing – this is how the Irish Republican Army was eventually “defeated.”
The question is, as it always should be: Do these options keep America safe? Escalation may keep America safe in the short term, but increasing civilian casualties and a long occupation are sure to stoke anti-Americanism in the country for a generation. But could not escalating, or even beginning a withdrawal, keep America safe, too? And if it could, aren’t we morally bound to choose that less expensive and less bloody course?
The Carnegie Endowment thinks we can de-escalate and still keep our security, and they’ve outlined a policy to do it. Our allies are coming to the conclusion that withdrawal might be ok, as well, with seven coalition countries having either already withdrawn or announced withdrawal dates. If it is possible to not escalate, or even set a strategy for eventual withdrawal, and keep America safe, we should do it.
That is what I’d caution Atkins and others who support the surge in Afghanistan to keep in mind. The goal of this war is to keep America safe and nothing else. It is incumbent upon you to prove escalation is the only way we’re going to keep America safe. This is the standard you must meet when you put America blood on the line. Any less is just wrong.
Millions of people of people come to America to pursue a better life for their families. I know one personally who came here through the desert with no documentation — after 12 years he has opened a restaurant, she has a cleaning business with 12 people working for her and their oldest child is going to medical college to become a nurse.
Why do you demean people like this and say.”Great numbers of those which could not achieve anything in their own country come to USA. So you are just piling up idiots. 0.1% of those people are worth something”.
What country are you from coyote you bigot? You know what a coyote is, a people smuggler that charges thousands of dollars to poor scared immigrants. Now your racism is starting to make sense.
Here is yet another racist quote from coyote:
“OK, I strongly support those goat hearders from Afghanistan”.
you are mental
Good thing the IDF doesnt do anything wrong eh? or you would look a bit thick John
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/philip-slater/a-m…
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSECq3kxT4I&eurl…
Notice how some support terrorists – it's no surprise that they are ant-semitic and hate Jews. That' why they also support Nazi ideology. They also ignore FACTS, LIKE THIS BELOW – JUST TODAY TERRORISTS AGAIN ATTTACK INNOCENT CIVILIANS. THEY CAN KEEP THEIR MOUTH SHUT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF AGAIN.
2/28/09
JERUSALEM (CNN) — Two rockets were fired Saturday morning from Gaza and landed in the southern Israeli city of Ashkelon, one of them hitting an educational institution and the other landing in an open area, the Israeli military said. Five rockets have landed in Israel since Friday, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces said.
More than 100 rockets have been fired at Israel by Palestinian militants in Gaza since the two sides declared separate, tentative cease-fires in late January, the IDF said. Israel also agreed to a cease-fire and pulled its troops out of Gaza in late January, ending a three-week military campaign that the Israeli military said was aimed at halting the rocket fire.
Let the Hamas terrorists know that with Netanyahu in charge – they will pay a steep price for their breaking of the truce and launching of rockets against Israeli civilians. These Hamas terrorists who call for a holocaust and the killing of every Jew in the Middle East will be destroyed. Notice now that Israel is showing patience yet the rocket attacks continue.
NOT FOR LONG!
John Ehrenfeld aka The Truth, you are unbelievable. Now you are calling President Obama “Anti-Simite”???
“Notice how some support terrorists – it's no surprise that they are ant-semitic” —– http://informationclearinghouse.info/article221…
The world isn't as simple as the picture of it in your tiny mind John.
DAILY NOW HAMAS IS LAUNCHING ROCKET ATTACKS, UNPROVOKED, INTO ISRAEL. THEY BREAK THE TRUCE EVERY DAY. I DO NOT WANT TO HEAR ONE WORD IN PROTEST WHEN ISRAEL DESTROYS GAZA COMPLETELY.
CITIZENS BE WARNED. LEAVE NOW, REJECT TERRORISTS HIDING IN YOUR MIDST. DO NOT ALLOW ATTACKS FROM YOUR APARTMENTS AND HOMES.
Asshole, Show me where I said anything about Obama? Now you resort to inventing things out of thin air? LOL Obama is a supporter of Israel:
“My view is that the United States' special relationship with Israel obligates us to be helpful to them in the search for credible partners with whom they can make peace, while also supporting Israel in defending itself against enemies sworn to its destruction,” Obama said.
On American aid to Israel: “We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs.”
Did you even look at this John:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSECq3kxT4I&eurl…
The IDF breaks the ceasefire every day.
YOU HEARD IT HERE – HAMAS WILL STOP ROCKET ATTACKS OR GAZA WILL BE DESTROYED. ANY CASUALTIES WILL BE THE FAULT OF HAMAS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ALLOW THEM TO HIDE AMONGST THEM.
The Truth, are you drunk?…. seriously, have you been drinking?
I have never looked at one of your videos – not one. I being educated and intelligent rely on reputable professional journalists for my news, not untrained, anonymous people with an agenda. I know what is done and can be done in an edit bay – many videos on You Tube are doctored, composited and fake. I can take screaming bloody civllians from one video and composite it into another in seconds using Final Cut Pro. It is common knowledge that they are posted to be used as propaganda tools.
Of course, in my opinion, terrorist sycophants like you who seek the slaughter of Jews don't care what the truth is. SO KEEP POSTING YOUR FAKE VIDEOS – NO ONE IS WATCHING.
You are the Scottish drunk auto mechanic asshole, have you forgotten who you are?
Well one shows that the Obama admin is negotiating with the Taliban.
The other shows The Brave IDF shooting and killing a Palistinian farmer tending to his land — last week– I thought there was a ceasfire?
The world is watching John, it may be censored in America but there is an illeagle blockade against Gaza going on right now, these people are being starved to death in what is a prison camp.
So dont talk to me about ceasefire, these people are fighting illeagle sanctions with fireworks.
You do know that Israel just murdered 1300 Palistinians dont you, two thirds of them women and children. In front of the whole world with banned weapons made in America.
Poor innocent Israel. Fucking Nazi scum.
A Message to Israel:
Time to Stop Playing the Victim Role
By Philip Slater
February 23, 2009 “Huffington Post” — Jan. 09, 2009 — I can understand that after centuries of persecution it's satisfying for a Jewish state to be the aggressor for a change, but there's a codicil that goes with that role. You don't get to act like a victim any more. “Poor little Israel” just sounds silly when you're the dominant power in the Middle East. When you've invaded several of your neighbors, bombed and defeated them in combat, occupied their land, and taken their homes away from them, it's time to stop acting oppressed. Yes, Arab states deny your right to exist, threaten to drive you into the sea, and all the rest of their futile, helpless rhetoric. The fact is, you have the upper hand and they don't. You have sophisticated arms and they don't. You have nuclear weapons and they don't. So stop pretending to be pathetic. It doesn't play well in Peoria.
(Yes, I know, we Americans should talk–always trembling in our boots about terrorists and 'rogue states' and 'evil empires' when we have enough nukes to blow up entire continents, and spend more on arms in an hour than most of the world's nations spend in a year. But just because we're hypocrites and Nervous Nellies doesn't mean you have to be).
Calling Hamas the 'aggressor' is undignified. The Gaza strip is little more than a large Israeli concentration camp, in which Palestinians are attacked at will, starved of food, fuel, energy–even deprived of hospital supplies. They cannot come and go freely, and have to build tunnels to smuggle in the necessities of life. It would be difficult to have any respect for them if they didn't fire a few rockets back.
The Israel lobby has a hissy fit when anyone points out that Israel has been borrowing liberally from the Nazi playbook, but to punish a whole nation for the attacks of a few–which Israel has been doing consistently in Gaza–is a violation of international law–a law enacted in response to the Nazi practice. And please, spare us the hypocrisy–borrowed, I'm ashamed to admit, from my own government–of saying 'every effort is made to avoid civilian casualties'. When you drop bombs on a crowded city you're bombing civilians. Bombs don't ask for ID cards. Bombs are civilian killers. That's what they do. They're designed to break the spirit of a nation by slaughtering families. They were used all through World War II by all sides for that very purpose. And that's what they're intended for in Gaza.
And please, Israel, try to restrain yourself from using that ridiculous argument, borrowed again from Bush (how low can you get?), that Hamas leaders “hide among civilians”, by living in their own homes. Apparently, in the thinking of Israelis, they should all run out into an uninhabited area somewhere (try to find one in Gaza), surround themselves with flares and write in the sand with a stick, “Here I am!”
Yesterday you shelled three UN-run schools, killing several dozen children and adults, despite the fact that the UN had given you the precise coordinates of all its schools in Gaza. So much for 'taking every care to avoid civilian casualties'. You seem to feel you can kill whomever you like, whenever you like, and wherever you like, just because you have a blank check from the United States. Every day this assault goes on you're demonstrating contempt for the UN, the international community, and human life. Talk about a rogue state.
You might also pay attention to the fact that your outdated policy of macho bullying–the policy you've been following for decades–isn't working! The Palestinians are human. They're not dogs you can beat into submission. The worse you treat them, the more they'll fight back. That's what it means to be human. The more you oppress people, the more people resist. We dropped more bombs on Viet Nam than all the bombs dropped by all nations in World War II. Not to mention napalm, herbicides and all kinds of sophisticated land mines. But did they bow down and kiss the feet of their conquerors? They did not.
You'll have to kill them all. And when you do, you may finally lose the support even of the United States.
Remember that American support is based entirely on the notion that no politician can win without the Jewish vote. But not all American Jews think Israel is on a divine mission from God. A great many American Jews believe in international law and justice.
I can understand how Israel could resent this lecture coming from an American. After all, isn't this what we Americans did? Came into someone else's country, slaughtered 95% of its inhabitants and took over? And didn't we go all Nervous Nellie whenever they fought back, accusing them of aggression to justify even more genocidal slaughter? And didn't we get away with it?
Yes, but I'm sorry to tell you, Israel, you came on the scene too late. Genocide just doesn't fly any more. I know it isn't fair, you have every right to feel aggrieved about this, but the world's smaller, cowboys are passé, and bullies aren't heroes any more.
As I told you before – Israel will not pay attention to racist anti-semitic scum while defending themselves. Don't you get it? Did any of the demonstrations last time matter? Not one bit. So these anti-semites like you who call Jews scum can keep on talking to themselves. It doe not matter a bit.
Never has there been a more ineffective movement then the one seeking to destroy Israel. You are totally meaningless.
Sometimes it is very easy to see the distinction between good and evil. Israel is a civilized democracy and their enemies are terrorist fanatics. Period. End of conversation.
No John, no running off now. My question for you is this, every year there is a a vote in the UN as to wether to follow the two state settlement, every country in the world votes in favour of this peace settlement with exception of the U.S, Israel and a couple of pacific islands. Why?
Why does the whole world recognise Israel as the aggressors with the sole exception of the U.S.A —- thats 96% to 4%!
Israel is a terrorist state along with the U.S and I am ashamed to say the U.K. And the descerning of the entire world populace knows it.
I am fascinated with your 'good and evil' statement, tell me John, do you think that I am evil? you dont need to elaborate, a simple yes or no will do.
Every year the U.N votes for a resolution entitled: “Peacefull Settlement of the Palistine Question”… every year the outcome is the same – the whole world on one side, Israel the USA and 3-4 south pacific islands on the other.
Source NORMAN FINKELSTEIN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFD5e5ZLSqg&feat…
The resolution in question:
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,PSE,45…
BY THEIR ACTIONS WE SHALL KNOW THEM. Yes John, it is christal clear.
News bulletin for you scumbag. You don't ask me questions.
Given that the US and Israel are moral democracies and the UN has been a mouthpiece for virulent anti-semitism for decades it's irrelevant.
HERE IT IS ONE MORE TIME SO EVEN YOU THE THICK AND STUPID CAN UNDERSTAND IT. ISRAEL DECIDES WHAT IT WILL DO TO DEFEND ITSELF, NOT THE UN, NOT RADICAL LEFTIST ANTI-SEMITES IN EUROPE, NOT ANYBODY. THE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE USED TO CENTURIES OF DISCRIMINATION, MURDER AND OPPRESSION. THOSE DAYS ARE OVER FOREVER. ISRAEL NOW HAS ONE OF THE STRONGEST MILLITARYS IN THE WORLD, A SUPERB INTELLIGENCE SERVICE AND NUCLEAR WEAPONS. THE MESSAGE IS — YOU FUCK WITH US YOU DIE!
Every year the U.N votes for a resolution entitled: “Peacefull Settlement of the Palistine Question”… every year the outcome is the same – the whole world on one side, Israel the USA and 3-4 south pacific islands on the other.
Source NORMAN FINKELSTEIN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFD5e5ZLSqg&feat…
The resolution in question:
http://www.unhcr.org/refworld/country,,,,PSE,45…
BY THEIR ACTIONS WE SHALL KNOW THEM. Yes John, it is christal clear.
I think something is wrong with this dude.
He is showing all simptoms of serious mental disorder.
Maybe he was eating those mad cows or frantic chickens :)))
Where you from boy?
I think he wonderd of from the youtube comments page, he certainly is lost thats for sure.
Are you unable to get an unsecured loans because of your bad credit status? Do not worry. We are Bad Credit Unsecured
Personal Loans.Email us via alex_loanoffers@hotmail.com
Mr Alex Smith
Not fresh in the morning? I have often noticed that some are fond of leaving a little gap between the head board of their bed and the wall. The reason maybe that it made sweeping and vacuuming the area between bed and wall a little easier, like a space where the broom or vacuum hose could reach.
Not fresh in the morning? I have often noticed that some are fond of leaving a little gap between the head board of their bed and the wall. The reason maybe that it made sweeping and vacuuming the area between bed and wall a little easier, like a space where the broom or vacuum hose could reach.
What can we expect? Temporary containment in Af'stan. That is all. And that is all we can expect elsewhere too. The US / NATO cannot police the world's Islamists forever and the Islamists know it. They are counting on it. When they say Islam will dominate, they mean it, because they see no real threat to their existence, in the long term. The Taliban are simply a manifestation of something else. Islam. If no one understands and addresses the hate factory, Islam, expect more of same, until we're all broke.
http://commodityconsultant.com