MoveOn enlists liberal Hollyweird for a good cause for once – defending insurance company CEOs from mean talk and angry comments.
Remember, MoveOn’s Sick of Big Insurance rallies are today. Find one in your area and add your voice to the call for reform.
Funny, including the acting. Obama-sheeple, trotted out for another shot at reviving the “entitlement-public option-program”.
The “public option is dead! Shoudn't somebody tell these people?
[...] “If you spell something wrong, do you really deserve surgery?”Posted on September 22, 2009 [...]
TC, this is important.
Health care issue is an attempt to render US Cogress powerless, and to strip off liberties from people of US.
Now, I realized public option is not public at all, it is government option, and that is bad.
There will be an entity between patients and health care services, and government would replace health insurance companies which is worse for US citizens.
This is not good now, and it is not going to be better in the future.
It is bussines as usual, US people have two bad choices and they hope they will get better one from those two, which is not always the case.
Where are laws that protect citizens? This is crazy!
I've been a democrat since 1968. I support healthcare reform. But, I do not support the public option which is nothing more than a single payer system. For the life of me I cannot understand the amount of hoopla and support for a process that people know absolutely nothing about. There has been no debate on a single payer system, no one knows what it would look like, how it will be financed, how payment levels would be determined, its impact on the tax structure, nothing. Yet, geniuses are supporting it. And, even more geniuses are opposing it with a great deal of emotionalism. There is a gathering storm over something that no one and I mean no one knows a darn thing about. Those supporting who know nothing about it must view it as “very european” which means everyone should get on board the latest fad. At several trillion dollars I just think it is asinine to destroy our current system for one that has no legs.
“There has been no debate on a single payer system, no one knows what it would look like, how it will be financed, how payment levels would be determined, its impact on the tax structure, nothing. Yet, geniuses are supporting it.”
Simple. They are trying to trick you, and your part is to trick them instead.
The public option would be available in an insurance exchange offered to people who are not insured by their employers. It would be ONE OPTION among many other private ones. Public = People, Option = Choice. What's so scary? It's limited, and it's a choice.
You should get yourself a set of valid options, where patient can switch and change options when needed.
The goal is to get health services when needed, and not to have some philosophic debate.
I don't understand your point. There's nothing to keep someone from switching insurance in the exchange anymore than there is currently. The exchange would work in a way that's similar to the one used by federal employees. And the fact that a public option would allow people who otherwise couldn't afford insurance to obtain it can only help people get health services when needed.
The “public option” is a synonym for a single payer system. Once in place the government can undercut every insurance company so that what is left is the public option “only”. The government is having problems paying for Medicare,Medicaid and Va benefits. Except for VA benefits all other government programs are administered by insurance companies. Once they are gone administrative expenses for gov't. programs will mushroom by 4-5 times. Payments to providers (doctors/hospitals,etc.) will be reduced to Medicaid levels which are 66% of billed charges. Many providers will be driven out of business as well at this payment rate. The tax rates in countries with a single payer system range from 50-70%. Do you want your tax rates to rise to this level? I believe that reform is necessary but not this way. Problems can be fixed without destroying our current system; for some system that is hypothetical at best right now. No one has even discussed what the new system would look like or how it would operate. It is not as simple as including a government option in some insurance exchange. It would start out that way but for the single payers in this country it would be a foot in the door to convert the entire country. I've read the material at Move On.org, Credo and the like. This is their “stated” intent. We continue to argue about insurance executive compensation which is just as bad as other industries. But, we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Insurance profits are in the 3-5% range. This amount of money is not enough to cover 47 million uninsured. The real problem is the 80-83% paid out in benefits. Physicians, hospitals, drug companies, durable medical equipment providers are the ones driving the costs. Yet, we have given short shrift to the true cost drivers. Taking a Machiavellian approach by reducing the costs automatically by one third (medicaid rate) will only create more problems down the road. My point is that none of the real drivers of healthcare costs has been addressed. We have simplistically narrowed the argument down to some panacea that does not exist called the public option. The argument has gotten worse because some individuals don't want any changes at all.
Yours is a straw man argument, bolstered with unsupported claims. The public option is a piece of a much larger reform effort, none of which you've addressed. And the piece of it that does create a public option– on a very limited scale– calls for it to be supported by fees, not by tax dollars.
Your comment is indicative of the entire argument. No one knows the true nature of the public option because it has never been formally defined. Each group applies their own definition as you are doing now. If it were simply a system to cover individuals and small business with no design to expand beyond these limits then there would be far less angst. But, since many groups define it to be a gateway to a single payer system therein lies the problem. Listen to America Left on Sirius radio and other left leaning talking heads and each one defines the public option as a gateway to a single payer system. You have chosen not to address any of my points regarding cost controls, impact on tax rates, cost drivers,etc. This means that you really do not want to have a discussion of the issues; but, prefer to be emotional on the topic. Emotionalism on either side is guaranteed to provide a screwed up final outcome. There have been enough lies and distortions on both sides and there are many of us out here who are sickened to the core by this juvenile behavior. I did not vote for democrats to see them take the same false course as did the republicans. I am very well versed in Medicare, Medicaid and commercial insurance. I am well versed in the needs of the people out there who are currently suffering because of a system in need of change. To continue with this emotional rubbish is a disservice to the people of this country and future generations. The public option is a sham to satisfy the needs of the democratic far left. I am a democratic moderate. Just as the republican far right has caused them to fail miserably so will the far left if left unchecked. Let's make correct and sustainable changes to the system. This “me to” attitude regarding European and Canadian systems is childish. As your mother would say — if everyone else jumped off the side of a mountain would you do the same? Let's cover the uninsured save illegal immigrants and address the real reasons that are causing our costs to spiral out of control.
US citizens are immigrating to UK, and Brits don't know what to do because they estimate influx of 7 million US citizens in next 2 years.
What are those people running away?
It is always about the money with americans. I will bring it to you in a very simple manner: USA is bankrupt.
That means US citizens will not be able to pay for health insurance as they did in the past.
That what you call “european” health care is based on couple of simple principles, and I am going to explain it to you in a simple manner:
1. Any employed person is entitled to FULL health care coverage if needed.
2. Unemployed people are entitled to FULL health coverege untill employed.
3. People receiving social wealthfare are entitled to FULL health care coverage.
4. Every person under age of 18 is completely covered no matter what happends.
5. If some person does not fall in previous 4 categories, that person is covered in FULL.
Every health care system costs money.
Every employed person pays health insurance. Every employer pays health insurance for its employees (see, it is multipayer system!).
It is multi-payer system. You are paying every month for health care insurance. It is not YOURS health care insurance, it is for beneffit of everybody.
Now, those that will shout “socialisam” or “communisam”, hold on to your leather panties.
It is multi-payer public health care system which actually generates surpluses which are used to buy new medical equipment, build new hospitals, prevention programs and similar stuff.
Percentage of sick is very easily determined, by statistics and stochastic prediction models. The very same models are used by your health care companies, to determine how to get more money from people and give them as litle as possible health care.
In laymans words, that means you are paying for other sick people, and if you get sick, someone else will pay for you.
That is underlying idea behind european health care which you failed to understand.
We see your health care system as a fraudulent, and if someone tried to impose such kind of fraud on us, we would force him out with a pitch fork.
OK?
Real public health care system is in fact multi payer system. And if you are offered a single payer system, it is not public health care and they are trying to trick you.
Well, you are talking about two “sides” in this health care bussines, but in reality there is just one side, and your division of “left”,”right”, “democrats” and “republicans” is innacurate, since there is no democracy in US.
Most of things you are talking about are illusions you are conditioned to beleive in.
I bet you people have a headache if you try to chalenge the establisment in any way.
Well ok. Thanks for your singular view of the healthcare system in this country.
As I stated before. The reason for all of the arguments is that the public option/single payer system has “not” been defined. Therefore, people are sort of making up their own view of what they “think” the government,politicians and lobbying groups are discussing. Until a real plan is put out this sort of discourse will go on; each person making it up as they go along.
Just out of curiosity — what is your background?
Same as yours.
The bigest error is that you automaticaly assert that public option is single payer system.
It is not public option, and if your “public option” is based on single payer, it is something else, but it was named “public” for some reason.
By the way, in most of countries, people see US health care as immoral, unethical, fraudulent and profit oriented.
In one word, it is abomination.
“Those goddam immigrints!”…. only joking, there is plenty of room. Anyway, who can blame them, with the whole world going to shit this is the place to be. Bring money guys, this aint a charity we are running here… note: dollars not accepted, only real money :)
Craig, it is not funny. They are going to seek jobs, and there you have it.
By the way, we are not taking any immigrants from USA.
Doesnot bother me none. People are interesting animals and will travel werever there can find a better life, welcome aboard. More people = more customers.
Craig, did you realize they had a “public” option without underlying definition of relations and obligations of perties involved?
Bottom line.
If US quits wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, there will be enough money and funds to save its economy, and more than enough money for solving problems of health care system
As a point of interest, the median salary for health care insurance CEOs is $12.4 million annually. Last year, Will Farrell made $31 million, I wonder how many people he employed?
Here's an outrage that needs to be addressed. William W. McGuire, CEO of United Health Group, was paid $124.8 million in 2005. That was enough to cover the insurance premiums of 34,000 people. That should outrage anyone who pays insurance premiums! Why aren't the shareholders in this company outraged?!!
This outrage is accomplished by government regulation that stifles inter-state competition. In effect, the government has let the health care insurance industry set up a quasi-monopoly that keeps insurance premiums high.
Excluding ILLEGAL ALIENS…is cost effective! Roughly $400 Billion annually, and growing, for people who have no legal or moral right to be here!
What are the real reasons this economy is spiraling out of control? Could it be “ENTITLEMENTS”, “FREE STUFF?! Could that be part of the problem?
Obimbo's “welfare bill”, will cost more than the Iraq, and Afghanistan war combined. An estimated $1.34 Trillion over the next 10 years!
The terrorist need not worry about bringing us down, Obama and his dominions will do it without firing a shot. They'll just spend us into oblivion. Lookout third-world-toilet, it won't be long now, we're circling the bowel!!
I hope, at least, their doing it LEGALLY!
No argument with that here. I said from the outset, this isn't about health care reform, it's about government confiscation of power. By thwarting all attempts to open health care insurance to national competition, tort reform, and many other options that could drastically lower the cost of health care, they have inadvertently shown us their true intentions.
Obama is a socialist with a socialist agenda. He was a socialist prior to being elected president and that has not changed. Carl Marx once said, the quickest way to secure socialism is through control of health care. We have watched Obimbo do many things outside the purview of his Constitutional power and get away with it. Taking over national health care will be his springboard for a national socialist takeover.
You stated a truism, “every health care system costs money”. So, if we agree on that, then the next truism should be, “which system provides the best care for the least amount of money”. In this country, with our Republican form of government, capitalism has served us best. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any other form of economics.
If this government would get out of the way, capitalism would work with health care as well. But their not going to let that happen because, it takes away to much power from the government.
What's scary is, it's an exchange run by the GOVERNMENT! It is one option that would eventually become the ONLY OPTION! It's only “limited”, in the time it will take to run the free-market insurance companies out of business. Then what choice will you have, one!
At present, the government pays upward of 70% of federal employee premiums, or should I say, WE PAY 70% OF FEDERAL EMPLOYEE PREMIUMS!
So being able to switch insurance through an exchange is merely, moving the government run health care insurance from one hand to the other.
There is nothing the “public option”, can do that the private free-market can't do better. Why aren't you asking your representatives why they won't open health care insurance to inter-state competition? There's a reason this government isn't budging on free competition, why don't you find out what that reason is!
Where does that fee come form? Baucus says, the fee will be charged to private insurance companies, medical devise makers, clinical laboratories, and the pharmaceutical industry, to support the government public option?!! That will guarantee health care premiums will rise faster than if we did nothing!
And let's not forget, that won't pay the entire cost of the public option, guess where the rest is going to come form?
The fee is the premium paid by the individual when he or she purchases insurance. Your entry is full of misinformation. I'm not sure where you're getting your information, but you're completely off-base. As for your other post, what a public option can do that the private insurance market hasn't yet done is provide a competitor in markets where there isn't one or where the cost is too great for individuals who aren't covered through their employers; offer a lower-cost alternative with guaranteed benefits (without the kind of abuses that have been amply documented, resulting in cancellations of insurance when a policy-holder becomes expensive to insure, or denials of service because of trumped-up “pre-existing conditions.”) In short, it will help address very real needs that I haven't seen you express any concern about. Finally, regarding the issue of interstate competition, that in fact has been incorporated into the Senate Finance Committee's version of the bill. I'm not sure about the other versions.
Absolute nonsense. Will Ferrell didn't deny insurance to people who paid their premiums.
Your point about paying the premiums of federal employees is completely irrelevant. We pay 100% of their salaries. But the public option and the insurance exchange in which it would be offered is not the same exchange that federal employees use. Perhaps you should do a bit of reading from an unbiased source about what the public option actually is. Maybe you'd find out it isn't the scary monster you believe it to be.
Source: New York Times
September 25, 2009.
Title of Article: Plan pleases drug makers but, not other groups.
Is the GOVERNMENT INVOLVED?!! Didn't you say, the public option hasn't been decided on yet? If not, where are you getting your information? I'd like to read it.
According to Democrats, the public option is a “government created insurance”. This insurance would be 10-14% lower than private insurance. Guess what happens to private insurance companies? Once the private sector is gone, leaving only one option, we will be left with a health care system mirroring the Medicare system that, in it's present state, takes up 11% of the annuall government expenditures, and is on the verge of bankruptcy. What happens when the number of people using the public option exceeds the FEES needed to run the public option?
Can you say… RATIONED HEALTH CARE!
What? Will Ferrell…premiums…What?
I suggest you stop reading Moveon.Org! Your starting to make about as much sense as Obimbo.
OK, I misread your point. You're right about one thing: insurance company executive salaries are an outrage. But what Will Ferrell earns is completely irrelevant.
Creating interstate competition isn't the answer to our nation's healthcare needs. I'm open to learning more about the reasons why states regulate this right now, not the federal government.
One last word: it's infantile to use names like “Obimbo” for the President. Your credibility suffers when you do it.
P.S. The cost of Bush's tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans: $3 trillion.
P.P.S. The cost of the Republican Congress' unfunded prescription drug benefit: $1.2 trillion
And how much will businesses pay out in insurance cover for their employees over the next 10 years? folks going bankrupt at a rate of 1 every 7 seconds because of insurance companies riggling out of their commitments? how much?
The accumilative cost of the Iraq/Afghanistan disasters is 12 Trillion. Lets talk over 850 U.S bases throughout the world and all the others that are covert, the outragious coust of your defence industry, the outragios costs of your nueclear arsenal. The money that NASA pisses away with the embarrisingly defunct and unsafe “space shuttle” while China and Russia and France are reaping in huge proffits by by payloading unmaned satalites into orbit with cheep rockets, where is your anger at the Wall Street rip off, where is your anger at 200 billion of Iraqs money dissapearing, where is your anger at the billions thrown out in bribes accross the world to sweeten dictators so that they will let you keep your bases their for goodness knows why… total waste of money.
You are wrong TC, its not too late for America but all your oversees investments have to be redirected into your own country. Your oversees commitments are massive, redirected into your own domestic industry will save you.
If you can find money to kill people you can find money to heal people.
how would you know?
I don't think he is a socialist. For that fact, I don't think he is anything.
He is just a puppet, obedient minion to his masters in shadow.
The real rulers of USA are in shadow, while at the same time, they put up entertainment, as elections and voting.
I knew NoBama is going to be a president when they called him to Bilderberg group session.
And for those NoBama-Obambi-Obimbo and other derivations …
I can't respect spineless lying cheating no good SOB.
TC, I am not complaining about capitalism. It works out for me.
But, healthcare should not be connected to such categories. In USA, you have scary prices for medical treatments (like those $6000 for broken wrist) because health care was turned to bussines, and that is abomination.
If you analyze complete effects of capitalisam, you will find out it creates disbalance, and creates more poverty in the world.
Money is similar to gravitation, money attracts money, so those that have less are stripped of what they have.
US government is creating ever larger center of that “gravity”, and they “shake” the works, to get you ripped off more quickly.
Somebody had to pay critical ammount of money to keep US spinning because US went bankrupt, and they wracked real estate market. Now, it is health care bussines (I hate to even think of it as a bussines), and while they are PRINTING paper which they call money, your dollar is loosing value.
Large economies are turning to gold, oil and other means of accumulation of wealth, and dollar is quietly left aside.
TC, they are PLANNING to completely obliterate american middle class. Education, which is free in many countries is now extremely expensive in US. Less educated people, less problems, and if all of those educated were rich before, they won't complain because there is no reason for them to do so.
After that, land seizure comes to the scene …
What Will Ferrell earns is irrelevant? No it's not!
My credibility suffers when I use “Bimbo”? Would you prefer I use Obambi? I'm not worried about my credibility, I'm worried about his lack of anything needed to run this country, including credibility!
Tax cuts for the rich? You mean the 10% or less that pay the vast-majority of taxes? Are those the people your talking about? You know, the people paying upward of 80% of the taxes and who actually produce jobs for the rest of us…those people? What the hell planet are you living on?!!
Now we're talking! Health care insurance contract language with built in caveats allowing insurance companies to deny claims on the most mundane of excuses. I can understand insurance companies denying insurance for a pre-existing condition but, not for a pre-existing condition the consumer did not know about, or, has little or nothing to do with the primary medical condition.
This is exactly the type of reform needed to clean up the insurance industry. Add to that, tort reform, open inter-state competition, and excluding non-citizens, and you've got the makings of a good insurance reform base that could, and would drastically reduce the spiraling cost of health care insurance.
The accumulated loss of taxpayer money is in the Trillions at home, and world wide. This governments corruption, ineptness, and greed have put us in the condition we are now in. That's why I strongly oppose any government run program outside the purview of it's constitutional design.
Reform of the private insurance industry is a must. Keeping this government out of private industry is a must, in any form.
That would be hard. In our case, our first hint is, they don't speak English.
TC, when I look at CNN/FOX news, it is all peachy and rosey in USA. When I look a little further, it is not peachy at all, it is very dark.
Ordinary and normal pepole know what could be done and how, to solve some or most of biggest problems in US, but government with all those agencies, commitees, experts seems like it can not find its own alpha-sierra-sierra with both hands.
They are not interesting in resolving those problems at all, if they solve them, they lose control.
I think that exact term for US government is crypto-fascist, meaning thay are fascists pretending to be something else.
“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who beleive they are free”
TC, when I look at CNN/FOX news, it is all peachy and rosey in USA. When I look a little further, it is not peachy at all, it is very dark.
Ordinary and normal pepole know what could be done and how, to solve some or most of biggest problems in US, but government with all those agencies, commitees, experts seems like it can not find its own alpha-sierra-sierra with both hands.
They are not interesting in resolving those problems at all, if they solve them, they lose control.
I think that exact term for US government is crypto-fascist, meaning thay are fascists pretending to be something else.
“None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who beleive they are free”
Texasconservative you seem to miss the whole point of normal discussions. Whats with conservatives, they always seem to label everything – Obambi, Obamacare and so on. Yes, it is infantile and really sophomoric to have discussions interlaced with labels.